Comments on: Understanding the Cost of Solar Energy http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html Information and analysis on the economics of solar and alternative energies Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:12:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: maxxx http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23766 maxxx Wed, 08 Jun 2011 20:25:58 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23766 With all due respect I disagree with: "high solar energy costs in comparison to conventional fuels should improve with utility rebates and government tax incentives" Subsidies are nice for the manufacturers but they end up costing the consumer more in taxes than they save in costs. It's just a shell game. We all have noted the "renewable energy tragedy in Europe, Spain in particular with huge investments in solar panels were also a huge financial bust. With all due respect I disagree with:
“high solar energy costs in comparison to conventional fuels should improve with utility rebates and government tax incentives”

Subsidies are nice for the manufacturers but they end up costing the consumer more in taxes than they save in costs. It’s just a shell game.

We all have noted the “renewable energy tragedy in Europe, Spain in particular with huge investments in solar panels were also a huge financial bust.

]]> By: HomemadeSolarPanels http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23757 HomemadeSolarPanels Mon, 06 Jun 2011 14:32:43 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23757 <strong>homemadesolarpower...</strong> I have bookmarked, Dugg, and I joined the RSS subscription. Thanks! .... homemadesolarpower…

I have bookmarked, Dugg, and I joined the RSS subscription. Thanks! ….

]]> By: Doug Brice http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23730 Doug Brice Sun, 29 May 2011 03:23:12 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23730 Solar Cost I just found this site and I could not believe no one had commented on this. I am an Electrical and Electronic Engineer. I have worked on power generation programs at Bonneville Dam, McNairy Dam and others on the Snake River. It has given me insight into the generation of electric power. Energy in, to get energy out, is what it is all about. Even with your abundant generosity of figures “Solar” looses out as not being cost effective. Your 20 years of service is far from accurate. Batteries and inverters are only good for four or five years. Basic maintenance of the system is ignored and panel damage is to be expected also. Most of all, solar panels don’t do well out is the sun and rain. The power generation declines rather rapidly as the solar panels age. I truly believe the solar generated electricity will never prove to be cost effective if solar panels are used. Realize that all electricity generated at our dams is truly solar powered. The sun evaporates the water, it then rains, the water collects in our rivers, and runs our turbines. Now there is a solar cycle of almost free energy. Solar Cost
I just found this site and I could not believe no one had commented on this. I am an Electrical and Electronic Engineer. I have worked on power generation programs at Bonneville Dam, McNairy Dam and others on the Snake River. It has given me insight into the generation of electric power. Energy in, to get energy out, is what it is all about.
Even with your abundant generosity of figures “Solar” looses out as not being cost effective. Your 20 years of service is far from accurate. Batteries and inverters are only good for four or five years. Basic maintenance of the system is ignored and panel damage is to be expected also.
Most of all, solar panels don’t do well out is the sun and rain. The power generation declines rather rapidly as the solar panels age. I truly believe the solar generated electricity will never prove to be cost effective if solar panels are used.
Realize that all electricity generated at our dams is truly solar powered. The sun evaporates the water, it then rains, the water collects in our rivers, and runs our turbines. Now there is a solar cycle of almost free energy.

]]> By: Alan Dominique http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23711 Alan Dominique Tue, 24 May 2011 20:36:10 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23711 OK, let's address some of the things this article leaves out. First, you supplied the customer cost of solar power but the 'wholesale' cost of fossil fuel power, why? The cost of fossil fuel generated electricity is very low, but it also can't be done at home so the power must travel great distances where there are great losses and MASSIVE infrastructure costs. This article completely leaves that part out. Second, your estimation of how much a solar system costs is way off, a 2 KW system would not be $45k for the average homeowner because your average homeowner would not buy the battery bank to go with it so take at least $10k off the price. I did see the link to another site to get the tax credits estimated, but that should have also been a note on the bar chart. Third, your estimate of 3.63h of peak output power is correct, but you're leaving out the non-peak output power generated every day. Outside those 3.63h solar panels still produce power as a factor of the Sun's angle to them and what if any filter/covering is on the panels. I admit that I don't know exactly what this figure is (though I would have found out if I was going to publish an article on it) but I know that my tiny 40 W solar panel array still produce a Watt or two AFTER the sun is below the horizon! Finally, I see no mention of the fringe benefits. Solar power is produced at the point of demand, which means there would be less need for huge power lines all over the country and if the power grid goes down, like in natural disasters, solar panels can still provide at least emergency power to keep food frozen, run lights, radios, and fans. I don't think every house should produce all it's power locally, but reducing grid dependency just a little benefits the environment, the economy, the homeowners, and even the power companies (by reducing their liabilities when the grid fails). In conclusion, without the tax incentives, solar power is still more expensive that fossil fuels. However, tax incentives can pay for as much as 80% (federal + state)of all the costs of buying and installing solar panels which makes it actually cheaper than the alternatives. Currently the average house does not have enough sunny roof space to power the entire house off of solar power, but the combination of cost savings and piece of mind from having emergency backup outweigh the drawbacks for me. OK, let’s address some of the things this article leaves out. First, you supplied the customer cost of solar power but the ‘wholesale’ cost of fossil fuel power, why? The cost of fossil fuel generated electricity is very low, but it also can’t be done at home so the power must travel great distances where there are great losses and MASSIVE infrastructure costs. This article completely leaves that part out.
Second, your estimation of how much a solar system costs is way off, a 2 KW system would not be $45k for the average homeowner because your average homeowner would not buy the battery bank to go with it so take at least $10k off the price. I did see the link to another site to get the tax credits estimated, but that should have also been a note on the bar chart.
Third, your estimate of 3.63h of peak output power is correct, but you’re leaving out the non-peak output power generated every day. Outside those 3.63h solar panels still produce power as a factor of the Sun’s angle to them and what if any filter/covering is on the panels. I admit that I don’t know exactly what this figure is (though I would have found out if I was going to publish an article on it) but I know that my tiny 40 W solar panel array still produce a Watt or two AFTER the sun is below the horizon!
Finally, I see no mention of the fringe benefits. Solar power is produced at the point of demand, which means there would be less need for huge power lines all over the country and if the power grid goes down, like in natural disasters, solar panels can still provide at least emergency power to keep food frozen, run lights, radios, and fans. I don’t think every house should produce all it’s power locally, but reducing grid dependency just a little benefits the environment, the economy, the homeowners, and even the power companies (by reducing their liabilities when the grid fails).
In conclusion, without the tax incentives, solar power is still more expensive that fossil fuels. However, tax incentives can pay for as much as 80% (federal + state)of all the costs of buying and installing solar panels which makes it actually cheaper than the alternatives. Currently the average house does not have enough sunny roof space to power the entire house off of solar power, but the combination of cost savings and piece of mind from having emergency backup outweigh the drawbacks for me.

]]> By: Matt stein http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23703 Matt stein Sun, 22 May 2011 02:58:36 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23703 Doing a school research project, the information on here helped so much, thank you! Doing a school research project, the information on here helped so much, thank you!

]]> By: Roland Johnson http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23688 Roland Johnson Tue, 17 May 2011 19:39:49 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23688 You do not take into account depreciation of the power plants which are not needed in the case of solar. Also if you are taking into account DC/AC conversion losses for solar you should take into account transmission losses from power plants. Since solar is generally local these would not be incurred. You do not take into account depreciation of the power plants which are not needed in the case of solar. Also if you are taking into account DC/AC conversion losses for solar you should take into account transmission losses from power plants. Since solar is generally local these would not be incurred.

]]> By: yalocay http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23676 yalocay Sun, 15 May 2011 12:51:28 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23676 thanks guys this is exactly what i wanted :) thanks guys this is exactly what i wanted :)

]]> By: Fred Henderson http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23657 Fred Henderson Thu, 12 May 2011 03:02:32 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23657 Thanks for the solar cost comparison information. However, I wonder though if you are not overestimating the performance of solar panels and batteries over time. I understand solar panel output decreases with weathering but I have not seen data on this. But possibly more importantly, from personal experience I have found it difficult to keep deep cycle batteries (used on a small, streamlined RV), which are subject to frequent deep discharge and recharge over only a few weeks of travel a year to last more than a year or so. My problems may be due to poor maintenance procedures during non-use storage periods (I know batteries degrade rapidly if not recharged quickly after discharge, but I have had problems manually staying with procedures over the long winter months. If you have invested a lot in batteries you might want to consider a backup house power based recharge system to maintain your batteries. I have never seen such for sale, but this should be in demand for the solar power community. I hope all goes well with your system and you can report positive findings periodically. We definitely need viable energy alternatives. Fred H. Thanks for the solar cost comparison information. However, I wonder though if you are not overestimating the performance of solar panels and batteries over time. I understand solar panel output decreases with weathering but I have not seen data on this.
But possibly more importantly, from personal experience I have found it difficult to keep deep cycle batteries (used on a small, streamlined RV), which are subject to frequent deep discharge and recharge over only a few weeks of travel a year to last more than a year or so.
My problems may be due to poor maintenance procedures during non-use storage periods (I know batteries degrade rapidly if not recharged quickly after discharge, but I have had problems manually staying with procedures over the long winter months. If you have invested a lot in batteries you might want to consider a backup house power based recharge system to maintain your batteries. I have never seen such for sale, but this should be in demand for the solar power community.

I hope all goes well with your system and you can report positive findings periodically. We definitely need viable energy alternatives.

Fred H.

]]> By: Osama Bin Laden http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23651 Osama Bin Laden Wed, 04 May 2011 21:35:29 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23651 cool bro. cool bro.

]]> By: Andolyn http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html/comment-page-1#comment-23648 Andolyn Sat, 30 Apr 2011 01:18:19 +0000 http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html#comment-23648 These costs for solar are old, you can buy a 2kW system for under $10000 not $45000 as mentioned here. That cost will continue to fall as the technology and volume of cells manufactured increases. These costs for solar are old, you can buy a 2kW system for under $10000 not $45000 as mentioned here. That cost will continue to fall as the technology and volume of cells manufactured increases.

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